Like It Is: Christine Brennan (USA Today) - Saudi, Pay Equality, Transgender Athletes & More
Christine Brennan is an award-winning national sports columnist for USA Today, a commentator for CNN, ABC News, PBS NewsHour and NPR, a best-selling author and a nationally-known speaker. Named one of the country’s top 10 sports columnists three times by the Associated Press Sports Editors, she has covered the last 18 Olympic Games, summer and winter.
They discuss:
:45 - Her proudest achievements as a sports journalist over the years
3:17 - Saudi Arabia: The sportswashing debate; Greg Norman's horrendous comments & potential players accepting blood money
7:44 - China: What about its horrible human rights record & how are leagues/organizations/journalists responding
11:10 - Women's Tennis Association: Leading the way by pulling out of China over Peng Shuai & the clear message that sent.
13:02 - More on Saudi: The Ladies European Tour (LET) is playing in Saudi Arabia and has six total Saudi sponsored events on the schedule. The LPGA has controlling interest in the LET. What does this mean for women's golf
19:37 - How different would the LPGA & WTA be if Billie Jean King had been a golfer & Nancy Lopez had been a tennis player
33:11 - Pay Equality: women's soccer, golf, ice skating, etc... and why is paying the men & women so important
42:57 - Brittney Griner: Is the story of her being held as a prisoner in Russia for 100+ days now getting enough attention
48:52 - Transgender Athletes: Where does she stand on the discussion and how does she see it playing out
56:37 - Learn More: Continue this discussion with Christine or reach out if you're an aspiring journalists and have questions @ ChristineBrennan.com
Transcript
right in it's said okay in three to one episode two of like it is and
Speaker:i am so pleased to have a woman who has no issue telling it like it
Speaker:is she's educated she's smart she is talented the credentials we could go on and on
Speaker:christine brendon columnist for us to day contributor for a b c c and n n
Speaker:pr we could go literally i could here like tiger woods announcing your accolade but look
Speaker:i admire people who have guts and people who ask the hard questions and that's certainly
Speaker:what you've done throughout your career when it pertains to that what are you most proud
Speaker:of
Speaker:thanks so much for having me on you
Speaker:at least it's great to be with you thanks so much for having me on your
Speaker:podcast and gosh you know i don't i don't usually stop think or look back
Speaker:now
Speaker:having so much fun and
Speaker:we
Speaker:living the adventure of a lifetime now and i'm so lucky to be able to still
Speaker:be doing this all these
Speaker:it's
Speaker:years into my career
Speaker:dirt
Speaker:just just loving it more
Speaker:i
Speaker:today than the day i started but i guess of
Speaker:oh
Speaker:course every now and then i think
Speaker:okay
Speaker:often i think of things in the past and and
Speaker:i
Speaker:things that
Speaker:guess
Speaker:have
Speaker:it
Speaker:happened
Speaker:was
Speaker:and i guess i would say that being the first president of the association women in
Speaker:sports media
Speaker:oh
Speaker:way way back in a previous century
Speaker:i
Speaker:nineteen
Speaker:did
Speaker:eighty eight
Speaker:ah
Speaker:to nineteen ninety and starting the scholarship internship program for w s m which we
Speaker:start
Speaker:call awesome starting the scholarship internship program that has awarded scholarships internships and
Speaker:what
Speaker:monetary awards to close to two hundred women now and two of those are scholarships that
Speaker:i fund in my late parents names and and i also
Speaker:m
Speaker:have my alma
Speaker:a
Speaker:northwester n i do a ton of mentaring and also have a couple of fellowships there
Speaker:and so i would hope
Speaker:and
Speaker:just giving back and and if i am
Speaker:work
Speaker:a role model or
Speaker:i've
Speaker:can be a mentor i've done a lot of that talking to s t and so
Speaker:i probably do more talking
Speaker:a
Speaker:to students than i do talking to athletes and that's fine with me certainly at this
Speaker:stage of my career so just
Speaker:you
Speaker:just helping those wonderful young p well try to get a foothold get a start
Speaker:i
Speaker:in this adventure of lifetime
Speaker:that was the
Speaker:as i said and just hopefully have the career of their dreams as i've had the
Speaker:career of my dreams
Speaker:what
Speaker:so
Speaker:you talk
Speaker:i think
Speaker:about
Speaker:that's
Speaker:mentoring
Speaker:probably thing
Speaker:young
Speaker:i protest
Speaker:people
Speaker:about
Speaker:unfortunately i'm nowhere close to student age but you've been a mentor to me it's been
Speaker:i have to say to be able to talk to you and seek your advice in
Speaker:your council and your wisdom look i think any woman who's been in this career in
Speaker:this business in the sports world it isn't always easy but to see somebody like you
Speaker:i recently saw where you introduce s a trail blazer and you certainly are you're still
Speaker:young you have a lot of time left and we hope that you continue for a
Speaker:long time because i for one love reading your columns
Speaker:oh
Speaker:i
Speaker:h
Speaker:love the way that you give your opinion and mainly because it's just full of factual
Speaker:education for your readers and with that being said you recently wrote a column and i
Speaker:love the fact that you tackled this on saudi arabia issue the crown prince and the
Speaker:billions and billions of dollars that they are now putting into sports washing relate to cover
Speaker:up this horrible human rights record how bad is it
Speaker:i think
Speaker:at least i think it's it's terrible
Speaker:tell
Speaker:and certainly that calum you're referring to was the latest of many terrible
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:headlines just one def doesn't even begin to describe it obviously but p r nightmare
Speaker:i
Speaker:also doesn't begin
Speaker:i
Speaker:to describe it but just the absolute cluelessness of people like phil michelson and so this
Speaker:particular
Speaker:i
Speaker:column that you're referring to greg norman
Speaker:all a
Speaker:where of course
Speaker:then
Speaker:he said we all make mistakes slugging off of course the dismemberment murder and dismemberment of
Speaker:jamalkoshogi a couple of years ago by the man
Speaker:who
Speaker:that he's now in business with two obviously try to start this sad golf league it
Speaker:i mean that one was was such shocking and awful thing
Speaker:o
Speaker:for greg norman
Speaker:self
Speaker:to say that i dare say the column basically wrote itself i wrote that that night
Speaker:after coming home from an event
Speaker:a
Speaker:and my editor got in touch i had seen
Speaker:um
Speaker:the news alert on what norman said m it is just oh it's awful it's awful
Speaker:i
Speaker:one hopes that this whole sody thing just you know goes
Speaker:what
Speaker:away just blows up just disappears for whatever happens to it
Speaker:i
Speaker:but that that educated or at least semi smart men worldly men like greg norman and
Speaker:phil michelson
Speaker:world
Speaker:they've lived you would assume
Speaker:ye
Speaker:that their eyes have been opened to the world would say these things and do these
Speaker:things obviously fill several months ago he apologized
Speaker:ah
Speaker:but
Speaker:i
Speaker:and then of course disappeared and who knows what his care or and
Speaker:ever
Speaker:what his reputation will
Speaker:just
Speaker:be and how he will ever reclaim
Speaker:and a
Speaker:it which is terrible and awful because i actually kind of liked phil and i certainly
Speaker:oh
Speaker:always enjoyed seeing amy michelson i never would have a meal with him or anything like
Speaker:that but just
Speaker:of
Speaker:as journalist talking to a golfer and and his spouse
Speaker:just awful
Speaker:and but
Speaker:the
Speaker:yeah it's it's just awful the arrogance of these
Speaker:that's
Speaker:men
Speaker:it
Speaker:the the sense of entitlement
Speaker:money
Speaker:um and you know
Speaker:i
Speaker:how much
Speaker:think
Speaker:money it's not enough to make millions and millions in your this case your home
Speaker:whoever
Speaker:country
Speaker:he
Speaker:if it's phil or or whoever else
Speaker:yes
Speaker:obviously grego
Speaker:take
Speaker:and
Speaker:as
Speaker:s made
Speaker:well
Speaker:millions in the united states as well
Speaker:i
Speaker:as of course being from australia
Speaker:really
Speaker:so it's
Speaker:you know
Speaker:it's really you know as a journalist i dive in
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:as a human being i shake my and obviously i'm going to stay on it as
Speaker:as many of us are
Speaker:m
Speaker:i'm certainly not alone on this one i've been on loan on other topics maybe in
Speaker:golf or one of the very few on a certain subject that a feeling we'll get
Speaker:to but in this one there's
Speaker:oh
Speaker:so many of us and i'm i'm
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:very proud and happy that there are many voices being so critical of greg norman and
Speaker:phil michelson and anyone else who i said it's blood money
Speaker:i
Speaker:pure and simple is just awful and
Speaker:do
Speaker:we should scream it from the roof tops its reprehensible behaviour and thankfully the game of
Speaker:golf which hasn't done a great job over the years of calling out reprehensible behavior
Speaker:go
Speaker:in other ways racismsexism misogeny et cetera at least this in this one we're seeing it
Speaker:and how about roy malcaroy i mean what
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:a gem he tinues to be the voice of reason such a class act i found
Speaker:him to be that way on other topics as well and
Speaker:yep
Speaker:for him just to be that voice of reason thank goodness for him and
Speaker:to
Speaker:then thank goodness
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:for tiger woods speaking out and others who have done that so i'll stay on top
Speaker:of
Speaker:i have
Speaker:at least
Speaker:no
Speaker:i
Speaker:doubt
Speaker:promise you
Speaker:and unfortunately
Speaker:and i know many of my colleagues
Speaker:i think
Speaker:will
Speaker:as you mentioned
Speaker:as well
Speaker:it's going to continue to be a story that they're not going anywhere they continued invest
Speaker:more in sports now it's gaming i mean literally billions and billions of dollars i always
Speaker:find it interesting because i tweeted about it last week and when people make comments and
Speaker:they try to compare it to china they try to compare it to other regimes and
Speaker:these repressive oppressive situations i have my own thoughts on it i want your thoughts in
Speaker:terms of that seems to be the number one thing that people fight back with is
Speaker:why aren't you calling out china
Speaker:well
Speaker:well on that one i think i've got a good answer i just spent a month
Speaker:and i know you're not saying that i'm not i know you're just asking the general
Speaker:question kind of teeming me up so
Speaker:i
Speaker:i
Speaker:just
Speaker:can hopefully it is down the fairway i just spent a month in china of course
Speaker:ah
Speaker:for the covering the olympics in february and i think the authorities in china hate me
Speaker:that
Speaker:so and i of course i'm thrilled
Speaker:by
Speaker:about that
Speaker:i
Speaker:the russians despise me i know this because my website according to my website person is
Speaker:just getting pounded by russian hackers and chinese hack hackers and other whatever they do and
Speaker:you know my words bring it on um yeah in china every day i was critical
Speaker:of course of
Speaker:oh
Speaker:the way that they handled horrible way they handled punctual the tennis player who disappeared
Speaker:to
Speaker:the world's
Speaker:the
Speaker:biggest met story ignored
Speaker:did that
Speaker:critical of the international impi committee just laid
Speaker:i
Speaker:into them quite
Speaker:no
Speaker:a few times thomas back not just in us at a column but c n n
Speaker:an a b c as you alluded to and others p b s news hour
Speaker:and it just
Speaker:and m and just of course criticize china every moment i had every chance i could
Speaker:uh people naturally asked so well then were
Speaker:do
Speaker:you censored or worried about that well no
Speaker:what
Speaker:because i'm credential with an olympic credential
Speaker:a
Speaker:and so the international limpid committee control that so there was also no dark alley to
Speaker:get kidnapped from because we're no dark alleys because we were in the bubble and you
Speaker:literally went from your hotel had two hotel
Speaker:o
Speaker:c n n hotel
Speaker:service
Speaker:in us to a hotel and car service or
Speaker:is
Speaker:or busses
Speaker:ah
Speaker:that were bubbleized and man press center and then the figure scanning venue or the opening
Speaker:or closing ceremonies and that's
Speaker:i felt
Speaker:that's
Speaker:sad
Speaker:that's all you could do so
Speaker:and i
Speaker:i felt safe as could be and
Speaker:dark
Speaker:i feel of course completely guarded and honored have the first amendment and to have
Speaker:i
Speaker:the leadership of the news organizations
Speaker:more of
Speaker:i work for and nothing was going to stop me or others from speaking out so
Speaker:anyone who says well
Speaker:oh
Speaker:oh that terrible christine brendon she's critical of starting arabia but she's not being critical of
Speaker:china just google at folks and they'll you have steam coming
Speaker:at
Speaker:out of your computer and
Speaker:on
Speaker:my
Speaker:ackhebucket
Speaker:my track record is pretty good on that even going back to critic and la bron
Speaker:james when he failed miserably to speak out appropriately for the protesters in hong kong protesting
Speaker:i
Speaker:of course for democrat in the wake of that n b a story with darrell more
Speaker:nd everyone can look that one up but oh no i think i'm about as consistent
Speaker:well since
Speaker:as
Speaker:you
Speaker:the day
Speaker:use the
Speaker:is
Speaker:golf
Speaker:long
Speaker:metaphor
Speaker:i'm
Speaker:we'll
Speaker:proud
Speaker:follow
Speaker:of that
Speaker:up with it you did hit it straight down the middle that was absolutely perfect from
Speaker:from my experience in my background obviously being in the in the golf world and
Speaker:uh
Speaker:you know i've covered all it's been my focus the last several years has been with
Speaker:golf i look at china and like i don't really i don't think that the l
Speaker:p g will go there this year i think that there will be certain because of
Speaker:what happened keep them out however saudi arabia is actually sponsoring golf events the government is
Speaker:sponsor they're putting their money into it china isn't doing that in an our sport in
Speaker:the game golf you have the blue bay l p g their sponsor by companies not
Speaker:the government so it's a big difference but yes you're right and and you regularly call
Speaker:out everybody which is why i pay us a today my monthly subscription to be able
Speaker:to read every time you call them out up players like louis
Speaker:thank
Speaker:state
Speaker:you oh
Speaker:sure
Speaker:yeah also i don't an i was gonna say don't mean to catch you off but
Speaker:of course let's keep in mind the women's tennis association showing the way for everyone by
Speaker:pulling out of china over the punctual you know fiasco and just the horrible way she
Speaker:was so there is an example of a league tennis
Speaker:i
Speaker:circuit you know an association
Speaker:not
Speaker:just doing the right thing losing money
Speaker:that
Speaker:not
Speaker:was
Speaker:an easy
Speaker:done
Speaker:decision to make but the right decision
Speaker:hi
Speaker:and that was done by the t
Speaker:i
Speaker:a at the height of the punctual controversy back in what november december so it leagues
Speaker:can do
Speaker:actually
Speaker:this
Speaker:fine
Speaker:there can be ethics
Speaker:that
Speaker:right you can actually find wonderful ethical behavior and for those who might be saying oh
Speaker:it's a w t a and this you know how can the ba or the p
Speaker:a
Speaker:g a well it's moved the decimal point one way or the
Speaker:a
Speaker:other i mean r ex for sale
Speaker:o money
Speaker:w t a that was that's a huge amount of money
Speaker:so
Speaker:that could be potentially
Speaker:i
Speaker:lost and so percentage wise that's obviously
Speaker:the
Speaker:woman's tennesis does great pays the women obviously
Speaker:and
Speaker:better than women's golf does
Speaker:you in
Speaker:and
Speaker:art
Speaker:and that's because of billyginking fighting for it
Speaker:he
Speaker:versus no one fighting for it in women's golf obviously
Speaker:okay
Speaker:um in that terrible history of the way women have been treated in golf and so
Speaker:no but but going back to this you know this is the w t a doing
Speaker:that was devastating for their business and they still did it okay you're a p g
Speaker:a you're up n b a
Speaker:that's where
Speaker:how are you going to handle this and and that's where again maybe i should say
Speaker:p g a but you're
Speaker:the
Speaker:up you know you know phil and you're up greg norman and whoever else went surgiobaba
Speaker:whoever else is apparently interested in this thing
Speaker:every question
Speaker:le westwood you know
Speaker:i
Speaker:okay they deserve every question because we've seen an example the w t a doing it
Speaker:in tennis with china and literally pulling out their business and so it really does happen
Speaker:and
Speaker:i don't know if you're aware
Speaker:i think
Speaker:of this
Speaker:we should
Speaker:but
Speaker:remember
Speaker:companies
Speaker:that
Speaker:are starting to take an interest to recently ups announced louis ustayson and le westwood were
Speaker:being dropped as long time ambassadors because of their affiliation and desire to play in the
Speaker:live golf league okay you talk about women's organizations and you're right it makes a big
Speaker:statement when the w t steps up and does something like that issue that i think
Speaker:actually i'm surprised it hasn't been exposed more it hasn't been talked about more is the
Speaker:l p g a now the l p g a doesn't have direct ties to this
Speaker:sally league it doesn't have direct ties to the ram co series which is also funded
Speaker:by the sad government however the l p g does have controlling interest now of the
Speaker:l t and the l t has six aram co events i think christine this is
Speaker:about to be a big story first of all in golf a lot of people avoid
Speaker:these stories it's not being talked about i haven't heard
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:the l p g a commissioner address it yet and i don't think that she's a
Speaker:seen it because nobody's asking i am really curious what this next phase is for the
Speaker:l p g a in terms of their partnership with the l t the south arabia
Speaker:events their player now wearing the sody logo what would your advice be what how do
Speaker:you see this playing out for the l p g a
Speaker:we
Speaker:let you're certainly correct that the media coverage is nowhere near what it should be on
Speaker:the lpgtour and that means coverage that doesn't mean positive or negative it means you cover
Speaker:it and the chips fall
Speaker:by
Speaker:where they may and the story
Speaker:i
Speaker:pop
Speaker:try
Speaker:up or you do the recording and you break a story and that's what you do
Speaker:um so you know those who cover the l p g a i'm sure of course
Speaker:we want to see the l p g do
Speaker:that's
Speaker:well and succeed
Speaker:that
Speaker:but that's not our job description our job description is to report things and engulf both
Speaker:men's and women's tours i mean encourage everyone to be journalists and not
Speaker:a
Speaker:on the take and not taking their free rounds of golf and
Speaker:oh
Speaker:that's appalling to me that that happens at the masters
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:and i guess other places as well and i think
Speaker:yes
Speaker:it does affect coverage we can i know all that
Speaker:my
Speaker:if you like because that's just you know again that's not my background at all and
Speaker:it's not the background of journalism um and
Speaker:o
Speaker:so
Speaker:o
Speaker:i think that there is a tendency in
Speaker:she
Speaker:the golf world to not be as tough as journalist as we see for example in
Speaker:the olympic world
Speaker:uh
Speaker:not even close i mean it's almost different professions
Speaker:that
Speaker:um
Speaker:i
Speaker:and it does appall me when i see that off side and again the hand outs
Speaker:the free bes people on the take and then they're supposedly covering the support and so
Speaker:i say that as a prelude to you know whether you're covering the
Speaker:just
Speaker:pa and you wanted to succeed you know of course but that doesn't mean if you're
Speaker:a journalist
Speaker:and
Speaker:you've got to report stories
Speaker:the
Speaker:and i gree with you as much as the l p g is nowhere near on
Speaker:the financial footing of the
Speaker:it
Speaker:p g a tour or any man's tour
Speaker:the
Speaker:um
Speaker:older
Speaker:you
Speaker:players
Speaker:know in terms of sponsorship for even even
Speaker:yes
Speaker:older players senior
Speaker:i
Speaker:players and whatever on the men's side
Speaker:a
Speaker:um you do you have ethics or not i'll
Speaker:ali
Speaker:go back to the w t a
Speaker:o that
Speaker:and the wa just pulling out of china and saying that's it
Speaker:and
Speaker:over punctuate i understand that the l p g a has a lot of things to
Speaker:look at in that bottom line is important and it's been fighting for years to get
Speaker:tournaments right
Speaker:it
Speaker:and to fill the schedule and to
Speaker:she
Speaker:be world wide but yeah they shouldn't be playing in
Speaker:oh
Speaker:saudiarabia and they shouldn't have saudyarabia as a sponsor i understand there might be people might
Speaker:say i haven't done a ton of investigating on this so i am not the greatest
Speaker:expert this by any means lisa but i will never ever avoid a question of yours
Speaker:or anyone's
Speaker:oh
Speaker:and i'll give my best shot
Speaker:ah
Speaker:at it um
Speaker:i
Speaker:find other places to go and
Speaker:the
Speaker:and i understand i
Speaker:right
Speaker:understand it's
Speaker:but
Speaker:not necessary apples to apples right but be better than that and follow the example as
Speaker:i've said now several times in the women's tennis association
Speaker:that
Speaker:and just don't
Speaker:as
Speaker:do business
Speaker:up it
Speaker:with bad people and you know it
Speaker:do
Speaker:would be interesting moving forward
Speaker:we know
Speaker:is the next
Speaker:the
Speaker:generation so
Speaker:i put
Speaker:you know
Speaker:off
Speaker:we know that your sweet spot for
Speaker:we
Speaker:golf
Speaker:have
Speaker:in people the consumers whatever probably at thirty five to seventy or
Speaker:a
Speaker:seventy five right in terms of those watching mostly white men right watching and buying the
Speaker:products and buying more golf balls and
Speaker:as
Speaker:get new irons and and you know a new you know rescued club and this and
Speaker:that
Speaker:it
Speaker:and you know golf vacations whatever right and buying the cars that they see advertised in
Speaker:the financial this is they see advertised what happens when that group moves
Speaker:ever
Speaker:on
Speaker:do
Speaker:moves through
Speaker:and
Speaker:to the next you know wherever it's going
Speaker:the
Speaker:and and
Speaker:i
Speaker:and then
Speaker:she
Speaker:up behind it
Speaker:funny
Speaker:of course comes the
Speaker:i
Speaker:teenagers now and the twenty somethings the ones who are living in a world that we're
Speaker:living in we're talking this
Speaker:no
Speaker:week after the horrific
Speaker:m
Speaker:shooting at the elementary school
Speaker:whatever
Speaker:in texas and just a week and a half ago
Speaker:i
Speaker:whatever whenever that was may fourteenth actually was the buffalo shooting and the tragic know horrifying
Speaker:murder
Speaker:a
Speaker:of those wonderful people in
Speaker:that
Speaker:the grocery
Speaker:generation
Speaker:store
Speaker:going
Speaker:and on and on it goes well that generation is growing up and we're also we're
Speaker:just seeing them have a different sense of social just that doesn't men theyre ll going
Speaker:to gravitate to golf in fact many probably
Speaker:this it
Speaker:won't gravitate to golf because of its inherent
Speaker:do oh
Speaker:sexism and racism over the years and also you know whatever country
Speaker:h
Speaker:club et cetera et cetera we all know and by the way i love golf i
Speaker:played it my whole
Speaker:h
Speaker:life but
Speaker:a
Speaker:um you know what kind of push will that be on entities like the l p
Speaker:g a like
Speaker:we
Speaker:the w a like the
Speaker:lack
Speaker:n b a like the p g
Speaker:every
Speaker:a tour like individual golfers who want to go off and do whatever they want to
Speaker:do the world is going to i think we're going to see more and more social
Speaker:interaction social justice social conscience these young people have grown up with
Speaker:care
Speaker:covid right they've grown up with donald trump as president for
Speaker:all
Speaker:four years
Speaker:that
Speaker:the supreme
Speaker:s
Speaker:court league an abortion
Speaker:why
Speaker:throw it all in the mix and people are probably saying why is she talking about
Speaker:this
Speaker:that on a podcast where
Speaker:cause
Speaker:we're talking sports or ostensibly sports
Speaker:i
Speaker:because it's all in our connected folks and it's one big world
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:out there and that intersection between you know the world of sports and our culture is
Speaker:now a twelve lane super highway might be sixteen line super highway
Speaker:you
Speaker:and so i think the pressure will continue to be put on on various leagues and
Speaker:whomever who are doing business with in the case of the sods
Speaker:i
Speaker:murderers and obviously just reprehensible
Speaker:you mentioned
Speaker:leadership from
Speaker:a couple
Speaker:that
Speaker:of different
Speaker:from that
Speaker:things
Speaker:country
Speaker:there so i'm trying to figure out which way i want to navigate but i want
Speaker:to start here because you said something to me several months ago that i think is
Speaker:m
Speaker:it it made me ponder and it was one of the reasons i wanted to start
Speaker:this christine i haven't told you this but it's i thought i'd get you on here
Speaker:and tell you this in fact last week i had brittany line come on and she
Speaker:was my first guest and i told her about what said and look i'm going to
Speaker:say this and when i grew up playing golf nancy lopez was my childhood hero so
Speaker:i mean no disrespect to nancy i think it's part of her culture it's the way
Speaker:that she grew up you said to me can you could i imagine if billy gen
Speaker:king had been a golfer nancy lopez had been a tennis player and i can't tell
Speaker:you how many times i've thought thought about that the last year or so since she
Speaker:said that to me so i want to turn it around to you what do you
Speaker:think it would be like
Speaker:the
Speaker:m
Speaker:love
Speaker:m
Speaker:he
Speaker:and the important thing to say as you just said i love nancy lopez i have
Speaker:known her for years as you have described i'm sure you know you know he known
Speaker:her for years and i think she's lovely and consider friends you know her acquaintances and
Speaker:certainly
Speaker:yes
Speaker:always have had a wonderful
Speaker:i
Speaker:conversation and time chatting with each other and i remember when
Speaker:oh
Speaker:she was on the cover of sports illustrated and when she won those five tournaments in
Speaker:a row
Speaker:you
Speaker:and
Speaker:woman
Speaker:the story about her dad and my dad was so thrilled that this young woman was
Speaker:just coming on taking the golf world by storm and this story about her dad and
Speaker:the the whole of course the athelic background i mean it's a fantastic so all odo's
Speaker:to nancy lopez this is not nancy lopes bashing this is
Speaker:like
Speaker:i get so what if so
Speaker:right
Speaker:so might take it as we are bashing her we are not it's just a fact
Speaker:yes
Speaker:that she and billy gen king are very different people
Speaker:and
Speaker:and um
Speaker:so long
Speaker:in the world of golf i understand
Speaker:right
Speaker:the sense of just
Speaker:i
Speaker:go
Speaker:do
Speaker:along
Speaker:and you are
Speaker:to get along
Speaker:able
Speaker:right
Speaker:to go
Speaker:or get along to go along whichever
Speaker:we
Speaker:one it is
Speaker:a
Speaker:when you are getting table scraps and when
Speaker:a
Speaker:there are clubs there are
Speaker:no
Speaker:locations
Speaker:allowed
Speaker:where people play the game quite a few
Speaker:to
Speaker:of them
Speaker:that
Speaker:that say no women are allowed and of course now
Speaker:that's
Speaker:in this
Speaker:it
Speaker:case i'm talking about any club
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:all male clubs that discriminate could you imagine swimming pool in this country that wouldn't allow
Speaker:katie
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:ladeki to dive in right now sounds ridiculous right because but that's what we're talking about
Speaker:there's
Speaker:like
Speaker:still
Speaker:this
Speaker:clubs
Speaker:go
Speaker:today
Speaker:to
Speaker:right that won't let a woman
Speaker:the
Speaker:wouldn't
Speaker:mild
Speaker:let nancy lopez drive up there you there's
Speaker:i
Speaker:one a few miles from a burning tree right um but obviously the big one of
Speaker:and
Speaker:course was
Speaker:my
Speaker:against a national and
Speaker:a
Speaker:so i understand the mindset people like nancy and others
Speaker:certain
Speaker:who've come after
Speaker:fireplace
Speaker:her who um there's certainly some real fire brands obviously who've come after her
Speaker:she
Speaker:she's not that personality but she's also came from a time when it was you really
Speaker:a second class citizen as
Speaker:i
Speaker:a woman in
Speaker:taking
Speaker:golf
Speaker:out
Speaker:and so i
Speaker:so
Speaker:totally get not speaking out but that makes billy gen king even more
Speaker:it
Speaker:remarkable
Speaker:is
Speaker:because tennis
Speaker:also of course
Speaker:um was so of course more of a man's world the and billy gen when back
Speaker:and of course we all think of bobby riggs and billy gen king which of course
Speaker:no
Speaker:was september twentieth nineteen seventy
Speaker:early
Speaker:when billy gen kame big bobby riggs a few months earlier
Speaker:court
Speaker:mother's day weekend that
Speaker:number
Speaker:same
Speaker:one
Speaker:year margaret court who
Speaker:was
Speaker:was then number one woman's
Speaker:it
Speaker:tennis player beat bobby riggs and lost to him that was the first of these
Speaker:a
Speaker:challenge matches these know bobby riggs doing his thing is the male show
Speaker:as
Speaker:and
Speaker:well
Speaker:his pig and it was very entertaining playing it up obviously as well he beat margaret
Speaker:court and billy gen king has said to many people including me i've obviously interviewed her
Speaker:many times and i know her pretty well she said while she knew at that point
Speaker:she was going to have to take on bobby
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:and beat them um that's that's guts right that is that's that's courage that's fortitude that
Speaker:is that is taking a whole sport on your back and saying all right i'm going
Speaker:to take this guy on pressure galore and then it was five months four months and
Speaker:she beat him in the astradome and you know like the whole nation was watching because
Speaker:we all had three now we had three channels
Speaker:the
Speaker:back then and howard cosell was doing the broadcast on a b c and it was
Speaker:just absolutely huge you know hall mark you know
Speaker:i
Speaker:the
Speaker:do
Speaker:first time i have ever seen a woman
Speaker:i
Speaker:on the stage with a man
Speaker:take
Speaker:in anything
Speaker:later
Speaker:political
Speaker:oh
Speaker:you know convention debate business leaders you know you you didn't see much of anything as
Speaker:a high
Speaker:a
Speaker:school kid but
Speaker:m
Speaker:you now just see billy gene
Speaker:m
Speaker:on the stage with bobby riggs and then beat him a woman finally
Speaker:and
Speaker:you
Speaker:there are
Speaker:beat him and it's something extraordinary um and there are a lot of guys out there
Speaker:maybe some will listen to this who go oh that was just pony it was an
Speaker:exhibition it wasn't a big deal and i always say to them
Speaker:m
Speaker:well maybe to you it wasn't
Speaker:h
Speaker:a big deal but to me it was and and it was huge and every time
Speaker:i
Speaker:m
Speaker:see billy i say you know what you meant to a young high school you know
Speaker:was self more i guess in toledo hills toledo ohio what you meant and i just
Speaker:trail off and she knows of course of course she knows so
Speaker:that was
Speaker:billy jean king had something in her
Speaker:death
Speaker:that was just extraordinary to just fight these battles and to take it on and of
Speaker:course she's the
Speaker:you
Speaker:one
Speaker:have
Speaker:that
Speaker:so
Speaker:fought for equal pay
Speaker:i
Speaker:that's why the us opened tennis back in nineteen seventy three i think i've got that
Speaker:right nineteen seventy three us open paid men and women equally that was the us tennis
Speaker:no
Speaker:association making that decision can you believe that in the nineteen seventies equal pay for men
Speaker:and women in the us
Speaker:did
Speaker:open
Speaker:that
Speaker:um it wimbelten did that i think it was two thousand seven that's extraordinary um so
Speaker:for me if you could see a fire brand show up
Speaker:open
Speaker:in the
Speaker:up
Speaker:world of golf
Speaker:of
Speaker:and say
Speaker:women
Speaker:open up these
Speaker:kill
Speaker:clubs
Speaker:or
Speaker:to women you're killing your sport
Speaker:that
Speaker:which is what they were doing which is
Speaker:god
Speaker:what now augustin national has totally understood and and fred ridley said as much you know
Speaker:when i asked him that question at the master's about taking so long to have women
Speaker:members and and you know he said we should have done it
Speaker:what
Speaker:sooner i mean huge huge statement of what a mistake it was so billy gen ould
Speaker:have been right for the game of golf and she would have been a blessing
Speaker:that
Speaker:for game
Speaker:up
Speaker:of golf for the
Speaker:i do
Speaker:you know for the sex is leadership of golf to
Speaker:what you used
Speaker:get hit over the head
Speaker:he
Speaker:with a frying pan forty years earlier whatever fifty years earlier and but that didn't happen
Speaker:and so i think part of it is lisa the are products of their environment so
Speaker:nancy was a product
Speaker:m
Speaker:and is a product of
Speaker:a
Speaker:the environment of golf where you didn't rock the boat and billy jean also could have
Speaker:chosen not to rock the boat but she of course her personality and everything
Speaker:a
Speaker:inside of her said i'm going to rock the boat i'm gonna gonna fight for equal
Speaker:pay we're on strike until we get you know they have the great picture
Speaker:and
Speaker:of them holding up dollar bills as
Speaker:they
Speaker:now we're
Speaker:didn't
Speaker:professional athletes and
Speaker:this is
Speaker:you
Speaker:a year
Speaker:see the incredible money that women tend to often at the end of the year a
Speaker:woman's tennis player will have made more than a male tennis
Speaker:oh
Speaker:player number one on the womens to our number one on the men's store or equal
Speaker:almost equal and of course there's nowhere nearly like
Speaker:a
Speaker:that golf
Speaker:ye
Speaker:i think there's
Speaker:i did
Speaker:another huge thing that
Speaker:the major
Speaker:has to be mentioned
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:and that is that the majors
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:the grand slam tournaments are played in the same place for tennis of course the men
Speaker:and the women are together
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:at of course
Speaker:and
Speaker:wimbledon us open you know ben french in rolling arrows and and that of course that's
Speaker:i
Speaker:been that way for a long long time while the men were getting the attention and
Speaker:the women were getting you know that's that's great well all of a sudden here comes
Speaker:billing king here comes chris evert you've
Speaker:and
Speaker:got great american stars they're winning tracy austin
Speaker:lee
Speaker:on
Speaker:but
Speaker:and on i gos martina avatalova her
Speaker:first
Speaker:story is incredible and
Speaker:women
Speaker:of course
Speaker:are
Speaker:that it comes a us citizen so for us audience the women are now taking charge
Speaker:of winning and everyone's sitting watching wimbelven on breakfast at wimblvin on fourth of july weekend
Speaker:oh
Speaker:and so
Speaker:where
Speaker:it has what has that chance to grow where is of course in golf as you
Speaker:well know the major tournaments for men and women are not in the same place obviously
Speaker:there's
Speaker:that was
Speaker:the case of pinehurst a few years go
Speaker:so
Speaker:but that
Speaker:i
Speaker:wasn't
Speaker:for
Speaker:happening at the same time
Speaker:i
Speaker:and so what you had and this
Speaker:ad
Speaker:is kind of an inside journalism thing what you would have had well before i started
Speaker:in the business you know like in the in the sixties or seventies again you know
Speaker:well well before i got into the business but you would have had
Speaker:it
Speaker:cermogenly
Speaker:then
Speaker:you know male sports riders
Speaker:a
Speaker:i'm just of making this up but i think we can imagine this would have been
Speaker:the case covering the us open
Speaker:at
Speaker:tennis
Speaker:going
Speaker:or wimbledin or whatever and the sports editor saying well go and cover billygen king or
Speaker:go right about chris ever maybe before chris ever was chris ever right well that sports
Speaker:writer who might have been like i don't want to cover women
Speaker:right
Speaker:sports he's in london right covering woman you're going to cover that right so you just
Speaker:buy that proximity
Speaker:or
Speaker:just geography forced forced that to be covered in newspapers around the country and around the
Speaker:world
Speaker:a
Speaker:and in golf you could easily have those same guys misogynistic guys sports writers again different
Speaker:era
Speaker:as
Speaker:not today's guys um
Speaker:i know
Speaker:but you could have them saying well i'm not going to cover in fact i know
Speaker:i heard it in
Speaker:you
Speaker:their
Speaker:know
Speaker:i heard them tell me this and in the nineties you know i'm not covering the
Speaker:women's us open as we were standing at the men's us open right so so that
Speaker:is
Speaker:over
Speaker:all part and parcel very long answer of this conversation though that if billy jenkin could
Speaker:have crashed landed into this world i think
Speaker:you
Speaker:it would have probably
Speaker:do
Speaker:been twenty maybe
Speaker:this
Speaker:even thirty years ahead and it would have been the best thing to happen to golf
Speaker:because as we both know now
Speaker:i
Speaker:golf is scrambling like crazy what's your biggest growth industry what's your on
Speaker:what
Speaker:tap
Speaker:has
Speaker:market
Speaker:done gneration
Speaker:women and
Speaker:but
Speaker:what have you done for generations you've put up a stop sign
Speaker:not
Speaker:saying don't come here do
Speaker:a
Speaker:not even consider
Speaker:find
Speaker:laying off go find something else and in the old days lissa they really had no
Speaker:there were no other choices
Speaker:the
Speaker:became my dad sure his daughters as well as his son could play golf i play
Speaker:a couple times a
Speaker:always
Speaker:year i've never i can always put myself well you know i'm not i'm not good
Speaker:at all i don't practice but you know i can hit the ball and and i
Speaker:know exactly what i'm doing out there tennis swimming et cetera i've always you know played
Speaker:those
Speaker:now
Speaker:it's back in the
Speaker:you
Speaker:day you didn't
Speaker:rate
Speaker:have any choice now
Speaker:on
Speaker:maybe the greatest
Speaker:earth
Speaker:woman's
Speaker:never
Speaker:golfer on earth never picked up a golf club and she's playing on the u s
Speaker:women's national socrat because there's so many choices
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:and moving forward since i'm on this you know on a role here you know what
Speaker:golf you the greatest capitalists among
Speaker:that's
Speaker:us
Speaker:the a
Speaker:the the that's the leadership of golf right the stewards there the green jackets and the
Speaker:stewards
Speaker:o
Speaker:of the game i'm talking
Speaker:at
Speaker:of course about men here almost exclusively they chose
Speaker:do
Speaker:sex ism over capitalism because of she'd
Speaker:the
Speaker:be
Speaker:dog
Speaker:selling more golf balls
Speaker:dick
Speaker:and clubs and clothing and rounds of golf
Speaker:yes
Speaker:if you had said in the the seventies yes
Speaker:yet
Speaker:we're going to have a gusto national is goin to have women members in the seventies
Speaker:was
Speaker:or eighties we're going to encourage women to play this game that would be the capitalistic
Speaker:decision i'm a big capitalist and we all are i'm
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:sure you are and and you know i'm all for that that's america that's our country
Speaker:and i want everyone to succeed and so to think about that
Speaker:the
Speaker:that these
Speaker:lame
Speaker:capitalists
Speaker:door
Speaker:chose not to make money they chose to slam the door on fifty percent of their
Speaker:potential
Speaker:obvious
Speaker:participation participant
Speaker:we don't watch
Speaker:group right fifty
Speaker:my
Speaker:percent
Speaker:god
Speaker:of participants they said no we don't want oh my god got to be
Speaker:ration
Speaker:the dumbest business decision on earth and they did it willingly and they did it for
Speaker:generations because of sex ism and missogeny
Speaker:a
Speaker:they
Speaker:at
Speaker:didn't
Speaker:first
Speaker:want women around them on the golf course
Speaker:i
Speaker:especially on sunday mornings or saturday mornings and look what it them now scrambling like crazy
Speaker:bush
Speaker:hoping hoping hoping that they can have the demographic push
Speaker:in
Speaker:that to to keep the sport vital moving into the now the thirties forties and fifties
Speaker:in this country
Speaker:i
Speaker:and i think it's over i think they've already lost most of those women to marathon
Speaker:half marathon palates soccer leagues valley ball leagues so many other options for those women and
Speaker:those women will have disposable income the rest of their lives and would be great golfers
Speaker:no
Speaker:and instead yes some of them you get a few but not nowhere near the numbers
Speaker:of half marathon mrathons all the other things i described and many many more so it's
Speaker:a fascinatin i'm just absolutely fascine by this watched it happen it's like watching a train
Speaker:wreck in slow motion
Speaker:it always
Speaker:how golf
Speaker:amazes
Speaker:is so
Speaker:me
Speaker:mismanaged
Speaker:christine
Speaker:its future
Speaker:no i just yeah it's a subject that we could
Speaker:so
Speaker:probably
Speaker:not that
Speaker:talk
Speaker:i have any thoughts
Speaker:for
Speaker:on
Speaker:hours
Speaker:that topic
Speaker:and i always wonder who's married you mentioned burning tree i mean there are
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:still several all male clubs in the country who's married to somebody who is a member
Speaker:at that golf course and that's part of what i talk about often or the women
Speaker:don't stand up who don't fight for it and i get that for many women you
Speaker:mentioned nancy lopez it was part of her upbringing part of her culture that's not the
Speaker:culture now thankfully people like fred ridley i do think that he's genuinely trying to change
Speaker:i know that he has two daughters i love what he said to you just the
Speaker:admission of it and to say i wish that we would have i think about what
Speaker:would against a national as much as i appreciate the fact that they have the female
Speaker:amateurs there what could they do for the l p g tour unfortunately i don't think
Speaker:it will ever happen i hate to be a nasayor when you look at and look
Speaker:you recently guess this the us women sucker team and their six year battle for pay
Speaker:quality you were recently on on a b c and d you talked about it and
Speaker:i love what you said you said look they br in they bring in an audience
Speaker:they're bringing in championships they're bringing in trophies you credited the men the young men for
Speaker:their willingness to be a part of that to be a part of the change golf
Speaker:is different because there aren't the ratings there isn't a tiger woods there isn't this a
Speaker:couple of times a year i make the mistake of going to the to the official
Speaker:earnings and i compare i don't compare one third and people always get up in arms
Speaker:they think that i want equal pay like sucker again i understand the ratings differences and
Speaker:there's always probably going to be the paid disparity because of that golf in terms of
Speaker:earnings is kind of like the wealth gap in america it's getting bigger and bigger and
Speaker:bigger that gap is and it's not really number one i mean you look at scotty
Speaker:chefleri's one four times this year but if you go to the top or on the
Speaker:female side jennifer cup she's made nine hundred thousand dollars which is good she's one of
Speaker:major she's done well you have to go down to number one hundred on the p
Speaker:g to her
Speaker:oh
Speaker:money list to get to one hundred
Speaker:m
Speaker:to get to where is at nine hundred thousand the one hundredth person has earned eight
Speaker:hundred ninety six thousand dollars in this day and age of me to in this day
Speaker:and age of these companies wanting to l eight women and on the golf side we
Speaker:have c m we have k p m g we have a lot of companies that
Speaker:are stepping up there's a wall mart northwest arkansas championship where the overall persis two point
Speaker:three million dollars that's like me going into a wall mart and dropping a penny on
Speaker:the ground what has to happen in terms of players speaking out executive leadership at the
Speaker:l p g
Speaker:hm
Speaker:a to say look we're not asking for the world we're trying to close the gap
Speaker:a little bit how do you do that without the rating without the revenue that the
Speaker:p g tour has in your opinion
Speaker:i was
Speaker:of course the first thing i would do and
Speaker:i
Speaker:this is going to have everyone have you know running and wailing all the all the
Speaker:guys who
Speaker:oh
Speaker:happen to be watching us here so i hope they can control their emotion
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:it is you know the us golf association
Speaker:and
Speaker:us g a is a national governing body and what we're talking about with socker of
Speaker:course was the national governing body
Speaker:m
Speaker:how many times have we heard the commercial for the good
Speaker:uh
Speaker:of the game right
Speaker:yes
Speaker:s g a
Speaker:we
Speaker:m
Speaker:wanted to do what
Speaker:f
Speaker:did
Speaker:it really wanted
Speaker:what
Speaker:to do what soccer just did what tennis did back in the seventies as i described
Speaker:earlier us tennis association and what us gymnastics does paying gymnast equally
Speaker:a
Speaker:what
Speaker:all
Speaker:us figure
Speaker:art
Speaker:skating has done michelle quan and male counter part male counter pat got the exact same
Speaker:price money as michele kuan even though she was a far bigger draw that's an interesting
Speaker:i
Speaker:one isn't it for us figure skating us a swimming
Speaker:i
Speaker:alebdressell
Speaker:first thing
Speaker:kabiladecki equal prize money first thing the u s g
Speaker:a
Speaker:should do is pay the women equal to the men
Speaker:i
Speaker:at the us open
Speaker:had
Speaker:and i've even had former um well just to protect the identity
Speaker:ship
Speaker:of this particular person will say former leadership of women's golf
Speaker:yes
Speaker:in general
Speaker:go
Speaker:argued with me thirty years
Speaker:a
Speaker:ago against paying women equally at the u s open so i've been writing and talking
Speaker:about
Speaker:and
Speaker:this for thirty years
Speaker:i
Speaker:and i said to this person i said i will just take your are on the
Speaker:record comments
Speaker:record
Speaker:from you well just those off the record because if i report i like you and
Speaker:we have a nice relationship if i report that on the record right now in us
Speaker:a today you will be fired tomorrow there was one of the great leaders of the
Speaker:women's game
Speaker:that
Speaker:arguing against equal pay now
Speaker:things
Speaker:that was in the
Speaker:then
Speaker:nineties and it was i had a big smile on my face as i said well
Speaker:i
Speaker:right
Speaker:will put this off the record which like no journalist ever does right
Speaker:we did
Speaker:not looking for a pat on the back i just thought
Speaker:it
Speaker:well this is so ridiculous i can't even imagine you
Speaker:to
Speaker:said
Speaker:go
Speaker:it so as a human being we will
Speaker:m
Speaker:i will not quote you and get you fired or in trouble or whatever it was
Speaker:going to be again and i'm not looking for a pat on the back it
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:just seemed like the right
Speaker:good
Speaker:responsible
Speaker:for you
Speaker:thing for me to do and that's one of the reasons i think i've been around
Speaker:along and and have the relationships
Speaker:don't
Speaker:i do
Speaker:like
Speaker:even with people who hate me or don't like me or whatever they feel
Speaker:oh
Speaker:about me
Speaker:so
Speaker:anyway so
Speaker:you want to be like
Speaker:that's number one if you want to be like every other national governing body in the
Speaker:united states s g a pay him equally what the argument is in that particular person
Speaker:that day
Speaker:one
Speaker:in the nineties was telling me
Speaker:this
Speaker:this well it would skew our money list
Speaker:is already
Speaker:well then make a percentage of it go
Speaker:maybe
Speaker:to your money
Speaker:don't
Speaker:it's already the biggest
Speaker:all of
Speaker:prize of so prize money then maybe don't
Speaker:fer
Speaker:count all of it towards the money list i don't
Speaker:you
Speaker:know
Speaker:really want
Speaker:figure it out pay equal because if you really want to grow the game and that's
Speaker:the reason like i mentioned figure skating a few minutes ago why did us figure skating
Speaker:decide to pay the top mail skate are the same as michelle
Speaker:i
Speaker:quan when michelle an
Speaker:oh
Speaker:you're one of the rock stars of all
Speaker:as
Speaker:generations
Speaker:a
Speaker:and figure skating because i
Speaker:why
Speaker:was
Speaker:i
Speaker:told
Speaker:make
Speaker:by
Speaker:sure
Speaker:the u s figure skating leadership
Speaker:point
Speaker:they wanted to
Speaker:it
Speaker:make sure to encourage the boys to be able to continue to skate because they want
Speaker:to
Speaker:so
Speaker:boys skate as well as girls so if you pay equally then mom and dad see
Speaker:that your kid could make the
Speaker:this
Speaker:same money as michelle quan so this is where golf has failed miserably absolutely failed miserably
Speaker:i'm sure people are just gonna just like tearing their hair out what equal pay for
Speaker:the us open yes it's happening
Speaker:like
Speaker:at every other national governing body golf
Speaker:a
Speaker:is lagging behind
Speaker:and
Speaker:by obviously you socker just handled this and the golf should do it too and then
Speaker:figure out the prize money and balance um and you guess what you're going to have
Speaker:honey
Speaker:mom's and dad's look at that
Speaker:all
Speaker:prize
Speaker:down
Speaker:money in that check say honey put that sacer ball down put that sofball bat down
Speaker:put that volley ball down you put that cros stick down we're going to the driving
Speaker:range and you will grow your game in a way that you never would before but
Speaker:he don't see it this way again sexismsexism
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:sexisamlisa let's just say what it is um because otherwise in twenty twenty two the men
Speaker:and women
Speaker:i've already
Speaker:who
Speaker:to
Speaker:run the u s g a
Speaker:it should
Speaker:should
Speaker:be
Speaker:have already thought of this and they should be leading this and mike an maybe i'll
Speaker:get m call or talk to him at some point why isn't he done it and
Speaker:it's because again it's kind of like nancy lopes being unable to speak up right even
Speaker:if she wanted to because table screw so women get table scraps and that's okay and
Speaker:golf
Speaker:a
Speaker:and i'm happy to just say call it what it is because i've covered so many
Speaker:other sports and so fortunate to cover you know the olympics since nineteen eighty four it's
Speaker:just absolute blatensexism it's awful and it should
Speaker:a i
Speaker:stop
Speaker:love
Speaker:and you're killing your game folks and i love your game i love golf i don't
Speaker:hate golf i love golf as far as the then the free enterprise ide right the
Speaker:which is not what we're talking about with the u s g a that's a non
Speaker:profit
Speaker:so
Speaker:all
Speaker:now
Speaker:those ngbs are non profits so now the
Speaker:that
Speaker:l p g
Speaker:is
Speaker:a the p g a m
Speaker:and
Speaker:that
Speaker:so
Speaker:is business and so i am you know i would hope that more more companies would
Speaker:want to get valedpromenica actually headquarter in my home town of toledo is now going to
Speaker:be the presenting sponsor
Speaker:oh
Speaker:of the us women's
Speaker:that
Speaker:open that's a very big deal and that's a new thing for the u s g
Speaker:a
Speaker:i
Speaker:so you know i think i'm hopeful i'm very much a glass half full person not
Speaker:have empty i'm very optimistic about everythin and i'm hopeful over
Speaker:women
Speaker:the next
Speaker:are
Speaker:ten
Speaker:running
Speaker:to fifteen
Speaker:on
Speaker:years
Speaker:at
Speaker:as women are running the country as more women run for president more women in the
Speaker:senate house et cetera more women coaching women you know leader in all ways running universities
Speaker:more and more women in the
Speaker:a line
Speaker:c suite of whom we've played sports because of title line i'm hopeful that we'll see
Speaker:more of that but i'm not going to tell a business what do other than
Speaker:i
Speaker:i would hope that you would see the incredible opportunity to appeal to women
Speaker:this
Speaker:obviously women have been and will continue to be the ones making the decisions in the
Speaker:household whether it's single women whether it's women who are
Speaker:whatever
Speaker:married
Speaker:it
Speaker:divorced
Speaker:might be
Speaker:women who are widowed
Speaker:out
Speaker:whatever it might be i think it's you know the numbers are extraordinary about the consumer
Speaker:decisions made by women and
Speaker:what
Speaker:more and more women are going to say hey i want to see a woman playing
Speaker:golf for i want to see a woman playing sports not just a man we're seeing
Speaker:that than ever before
Speaker:just think
Speaker:and i am really really
Speaker:i
Speaker:happy to see them say
Speaker:i
Speaker:that
Speaker:don't
Speaker:some of the things that the advancements were seeing i don't know that i would have
Speaker:really expected them so soon and i know a lot of people
Speaker:rain
Speaker:are saying what so soon but we have been so ingrained with men's sports which i've
Speaker:covered my whole life the vast majority
Speaker:i
Speaker:of sports i've covered men sports obviously n f l et cetera but we're getting there
Speaker:and we're getting there pretty quickly and again it's that younger generation that i mentioned earlier
Speaker:that's pushing pushing on on guns pushing on abortion issue pushing on all these other things
Speaker:when agree to whatever you feel
Speaker:there
Speaker:i'm not making a political statement i'm sang they're
Speaker:that's
Speaker:there an they're goin to be talking about this and that same kind of thing that
Speaker:ten year old today when she's a thirty
Speaker:think
Speaker:year
Speaker:she's
Speaker:old with a your old daughter i think she's going to wonder five year old daughter
Speaker:to see nothing but women's sports and she will be making the buying
Speaker:i
Speaker:decisions in that in that family in twenty years from now in that little scenario that
Speaker:i just came up with so so you got this companies
Speaker:as one
Speaker:need
Speaker:so
Speaker:to get with the
Speaker:recently
Speaker:plan here pretty
Speaker:told
Speaker:quickly
Speaker:me
Speaker:i would
Speaker:and
Speaker:think
Speaker:they've
Speaker:i
Speaker:made
Speaker:hope
Speaker:a big
Speaker:anyway
Speaker:commitment to women's golf he said not only do i care equality and care about pay
Speaker:equality and raising this it's also good for business and they're doing a lot of functions
Speaker:and involvement with the l p g a and and making a big statement because of
Speaker:it and really making a big differ it's for the tour in general okay i know
Speaker:you only have a little bit of time so i want to ask you two more
Speaker:questions away from golf their big stories right now and one of them i don't think
Speaker:is getting enough
Speaker:sure
Speaker:attention and that's the writin grinder issue it's still on going where almost one hundred days
Speaker:she's been in russia why is it not talked about more
Speaker:i can
Speaker:yeah you know lisa i think it has gotten a fair amount of attention that the
Speaker:story obviously
Speaker:focus
Speaker:being the story briney grinder of course
Speaker:i
Speaker:being the focus i've talked about it quite a bit
Speaker:more
Speaker:i think and i think it's it's getting more attention
Speaker:there
Speaker:and i think
Speaker:that
Speaker:maybe that's maybe the good news there
Speaker:what is
Speaker:that i agree with
Speaker:this
Speaker:you
Speaker:thing
Speaker:when it
Speaker:i
Speaker:happened
Speaker:didn't
Speaker:i was
Speaker:find
Speaker:actually
Speaker:out
Speaker:in basing
Speaker:go
Speaker:and we didn't find out
Speaker:i
Speaker:for a couple of weeks
Speaker:the
Speaker:one presumes it was because the authorities the us was trying to work behind
Speaker:a
Speaker:the scenes to resolve it before came out right which makes perfect sense
Speaker:thing
Speaker:back channel
Speaker:five
Speaker:what have you that didn't
Speaker:she
Speaker:work and of course at the exact same time that that she's being
Speaker:please
Speaker:arrested
Speaker:don't
Speaker:for allegedly
Speaker:no
Speaker:bringing cannabis into the country we don't even to
Speaker:yes
Speaker:if that's true or not you know of course we have no idea
Speaker:oh
Speaker:we can't believe russia as far you know you know anything on any topic ever i
Speaker:mean putting the awful horrors that he's unleashed
Speaker:i then
Speaker:crane it's just it's just you know it's it's just reprehensible
Speaker:great
Speaker:on every level
Speaker:we
Speaker:puttin you know one of the great one of the worst but evil villains
Speaker:that
Speaker:of any time history so but as that
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:is happening as he's invading ukraine this happens so you know any
Speaker:the way
Speaker:any hope
Speaker:does
Speaker:for a quick solution
Speaker:he
Speaker:clearly went away because now you've got russia obviously in a war against a sovereign nation
Speaker:that that it started to you know to attack
Speaker:um
Speaker:that country and
Speaker:i
Speaker:so
Speaker:think
Speaker:so that certainly
Speaker:i
Speaker:didn't help um i think but
Speaker:it just
Speaker:but over
Speaker:a
Speaker:time i really do believe that the story is getting more attention i agree
Speaker:o
Speaker:with you it has
Speaker:remember
Speaker:not gotten as much as it should but it's gotten more
Speaker:it's
Speaker:remember when we got the news of the re classification a few weeks ago m meaning
Speaker:that she's being you know held against her will that
Speaker:i
Speaker:us can maybe do more to try get her out and not worry about negotiate ting
Speaker:um that was the lead story on
Speaker:or
Speaker:the ones radio on w top here in d c
Speaker:more
Speaker:hour after hour after hour
Speaker:i know people
Speaker:so i do think it is it's getting more attention i know p i said to
Speaker:me you know
Speaker:ah
Speaker:what if it were larn james right or step curry um you know i
Speaker:how
Speaker:think
Speaker:many
Speaker:button would
Speaker:a
Speaker:have loved to
Speaker:and
Speaker:have had
Speaker:i think
Speaker:have
Speaker:it
Speaker:any
Speaker:a
Speaker:us athlete and i think frankly he might have wanted to you know be just as
Speaker:tough or
Speaker:i
Speaker:not
Speaker:have
Speaker:willing
Speaker:a
Speaker:to negotiate if he had lebrun
Speaker:but
Speaker:james
Speaker:go
Speaker:ridiculous scenario he doesn't have lbrnjamesbut but i've got to believe of course that would would
Speaker:have been non stop coverage for sure so that it is different that it's a woman
Speaker:in
Speaker:versus a man but but i do think the world knows and
Speaker:and
Speaker:i think you
Speaker:act
Speaker:media is doing a
Speaker:she's
Speaker:better
Speaker:involve
Speaker:job of covering it
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:and in fact the issue involving
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:it which is that why is she playing in russia why is she there and when
Speaker:i said lebon james or step curry i'm sure people are like well why would they
Speaker:be in russia you just made my point folks she has to be there
Speaker:oh
Speaker:because the pay is so low that we just you just asked me about in the
Speaker:n b a again that's a league that is not a national governing body us a
Speaker:basketball would pay its men and women the same if it doesn't i'm sure it does
Speaker:for bonuses you know for gold medals things like that at the olympic or world championships
Speaker:i'm sure that that's the case but then you throw n b a w n b
Speaker:and of course it's different that women don't make as much money don't make anywhere near
Speaker:at
Speaker:the money the fraction of the money the men make so then
Speaker:what
Speaker:they
Speaker:the
Speaker:go over seas to make the
Speaker:that
Speaker:really to make quite a bit more money for that time period well into over a
Speaker:million dollars most certainly in brine grinders case so anyway it's it's a tough one and
Speaker:a
Speaker:it's all born of the inequalities we've been discussing and obviously briney grinder in addition to
Speaker:being
Speaker:to
Speaker:a woman and being a female athlete
Speaker:a
Speaker:also is black and also is gay and throw all that in the mix and
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:it's probably everything that put hates right
Speaker:oh
Speaker:he hates americans he don't you ever see women around him you know i don't know
Speaker:he hates his women i don't know what he is but there's sure no women
Speaker:um
Speaker:leaders talking to him in any of these
Speaker:up
Speaker:pictures
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:he certainly
Speaker:think
Speaker:we know he is
Speaker:of all
Speaker:gay people because of his anti gay propaganda law whatever that met at the fourteen soche
Speaker:games i covered where he was
Speaker:what
Speaker:you know obviously cracking
Speaker:of course
Speaker:down on
Speaker:i
Speaker:on homosexual rites before entering those olympics
Speaker:i
Speaker:and that's where the great you know wagner the figure skater spoke out in the u
Speaker:s and then on russian
Speaker:wow
Speaker:soil against that among others she was leading the way against put
Speaker:m
Speaker:while she was in russia talk about guts and courage and so
Speaker:m
Speaker:so putten we know his history
Speaker:m
Speaker:so he's probably like loving it right that that he
Speaker:a
Speaker:has this
Speaker:is
Speaker:this wonderful
Speaker:but
Speaker:athlete and human being
Speaker:on
Speaker:who
Speaker:marian
Speaker:also happens to be gay
Speaker:i
Speaker:and black and a woman in americ and you know that
Speaker:oh
Speaker:that he can
Speaker:a
Speaker:have her and keep her captive i also hope it's going to be resolved soon
Speaker:to
Speaker:we
Speaker:day
Speaker:saw the one you know hostage be released there's another and and then of course britany
Speaker:grinder so let's let's hope that it gets resolved soon and i think as i said
Speaker:maybe i'm little too optimistic on this one but i do think
Speaker:good
Speaker:us medias in the worldwide media is doing a better job now certainly than they were
Speaker:good and
Speaker:months
Speaker:i think
Speaker:ago
Speaker:that you
Speaker:on
Speaker:addressed
Speaker:this
Speaker:it well
Speaker:very
Speaker:i mean
Speaker:very
Speaker:i've seen
Speaker:important
Speaker:people
Speaker:story
Speaker:mentioned as you said what if it was lebron james i appreciate the response and that's
Speaker:good to hear that it's being covered appropriately you think i have seen you speak out
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:about it i haven't seen as many up until the last couple of days and hopefully
Speaker:that will continue and we'll get her home okay lastly it's another issue that you talk
Speaker:about it on social media and it drives folks crazy it's it's probably more controversial than
Speaker:anything in sports right now it's the transgender issue you go back to leo thomas at
Speaker:pen and what happened she didn't end up breaking any records at the n c a
Speaker:and christine it's one of those things again i think that it's a lack of education
Speaker:i've been reading a lot about it i recently had a conversation with a transcender for
Speaker:i'm going to get her on here because she's been undergoing hormone replacement therapy for four
Speaker:plus years her swing speed is not close to what would be the fastest on the
Speaker:to her there is no reason that she shouldn't compete when you look at this overall
Speaker:how do we get past where we are in the controversy in all sports
Speaker:i know
Speaker:i was going to say how much time do we have and obviously
Speaker:to
Speaker:you know this is a topic i think lest that if people are watching there's some
Speaker:kind of time caps and they're watching us fifty years from now they may still be
Speaker:talking about this subject because you know what horrifies me about this story is that it's
Speaker:everyone is
Speaker:it
Speaker:entrenched
Speaker:there was
Speaker:black or white right
Speaker:do with
Speaker:and everyone fights with everyone
Speaker:but
Speaker:we know with lea
Speaker:dear
Speaker:thomas that she spent
Speaker:and
Speaker:two years
Speaker:she
Speaker:taking
Speaker:not
Speaker:hormones and
Speaker:it was the
Speaker:if she had not taken hormones of course those were during the pandemic
Speaker:it's a
Speaker:so she
Speaker:hell
Speaker:could kind of obviously
Speaker:and
Speaker:wasn't getting she could do this on her terms and one only imagines
Speaker:think
Speaker:how hard this is and the mental anguish
Speaker:o
Speaker:and everything that
Speaker:right
Speaker:that goes your heart goes out i am a hundred percent for transgender rights and i
Speaker:totally get
Speaker:m she
Speaker:it must be who can even imagine right what you're going through the reason though she
Speaker:took
Speaker:a
Speaker:hormones and she needed to take hormones is because had she not then with the testostron
Speaker:level in her body she would have
Speaker:i
Speaker:tested positive and never been able to compete so when people
Speaker:like
Speaker:are screaming at each
Speaker:to
Speaker:other not you and i obviously but in general and like either so you know one
Speaker:way or another
Speaker:i
Speaker:i actually
Speaker:did
Speaker:see gray area and by that
Speaker:or
Speaker:i mean once you're
Speaker:are
Speaker:taking the hormones where are we on medicine i watched
Speaker:as
Speaker:leo thomas and
Speaker:i
Speaker:i want leo thomas
Speaker:understand
Speaker:to succeed in every way i also do understand
Speaker:a book
Speaker:parents
Speaker:right
Speaker:i don't think they were
Speaker:watching
Speaker:transfhobes
Speaker:i
Speaker:parents who
Speaker:their
Speaker:were
Speaker:daughter
Speaker:watching
Speaker:he
Speaker:pen parents with their daughters and they were concerned i think that
Speaker:cveration
Speaker:is you can accept that as a normal conversation i'm not saying they're right wrong but
Speaker:as a journalist looking at the situation
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:these are not easy issues right one of the huge problems that comes in is when
Speaker:a
Speaker:you get politicians involved and they pronounce something and have a state law you're talking i
Speaker:think it was the utah governor that vito that
Speaker:yep
Speaker:right i think it was what four
Speaker:so
Speaker:you said there are four transcend athletes were talking about and so we're not going to
Speaker:have a lot i think everyone needs to tell a step back be human understand
Speaker:and
Speaker:those
Speaker:to
Speaker:who aren't quite where you are and know that they're not terrible
Speaker:this
Speaker:people because
Speaker:all
Speaker:that
Speaker:over
Speaker:is the thing that bothers me the most is the vitriol over something that everyone
Speaker:a
Speaker:is working
Speaker:think
Speaker:through trans athletes most important
Speaker:of
Speaker:as
Speaker:those
Speaker:they worked a very
Speaker:i
Speaker:very difficult time in their
Speaker:a
Speaker:lives but also those
Speaker:i don't
Speaker:who are
Speaker:think
Speaker:part
Speaker:that
Speaker:of a
Speaker:is
Speaker:team where it may affect
Speaker:a
Speaker:them i understand that i don't think that is a terrible thing as i said to
Speaker:start to have to work through where the liotomas story takes us
Speaker:he
Speaker:and of course she did with one n c a o and she and then others
Speaker:she did not do as well as expected obviously the pressure must have been enormous
Speaker:all
Speaker:and
Speaker:time
Speaker:there were lots and lots again of issues all people all sides
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:the you know it's just it's tough right it's a tough it's a tough situation for
Speaker:everyone i'm hopeful that every single one of those people that was working their way through
Speaker:the
Speaker:it also believes completely in transgender
Speaker:port
Speaker:right we have other issue of course of women's
Speaker:like
Speaker:sports has been a from lack of a better word protected
Speaker:the
Speaker:class so understandably right we want women's sports to be able to thrive as women's sports
Speaker:that doesn't mean you don't want transcend our athletes but it means there is that conversation
Speaker:bow
Speaker:we have had over the years about
Speaker:i
Speaker:strength
Speaker:we
Speaker:size muscles everything
Speaker:i just
Speaker:men versus
Speaker:yes
Speaker:women
Speaker:no
Speaker:obviously again la is a woman
Speaker:so
Speaker:one hundred
Speaker:i
Speaker:percent um so i think moving forward
Speaker:for everyone
Speaker:as tough as this was for leo thomas
Speaker:how's the
Speaker:and for everyone involved my heart
Speaker:i
Speaker:goes out as i
Speaker:where
Speaker:said especially
Speaker:there are
Speaker:to
Speaker:experts
Speaker:lea i
Speaker:did
Speaker:think
Speaker:go
Speaker:moving forward
Speaker:way
Speaker:where there are experts
Speaker:she
Speaker:and people working their way through issues that
Speaker:the
Speaker:are human and
Speaker:the
Speaker:are meaningful
Speaker:mist
Speaker:and are important and we all care about in the midst of
Speaker:or
Speaker:the
Speaker:our
Speaker:screaming
Speaker:way
Speaker:of everyone screaming at each other and work
Speaker:just
Speaker:our way through as i said you're already taking hormones should where where are we at
Speaker:the right place with hormones the medical people involved make sure that you are dealing with
Speaker:everyone fairly the transgender
Speaker:again
Speaker:athlete and those athletes competing against her or him
Speaker:i also
Speaker:in the case
Speaker:think
Speaker:of a transgender mail um and i also think the scare tactics donald trump getting involved
Speaker:were
Speaker:bice
Speaker:protecting women's sports that was terrible fox news getting involved that we're protecting they don't care
Speaker:about what sports they just see a wedge issue that they want to have
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:voters get all upset about stop it these are people's lives there are medical conversations to
Speaker:be had and i hope when i'm saying this no one's saying oh she's gainst transgender
Speaker:athletes i am not i do
Speaker:the
Speaker:think
Speaker:way
Speaker:that there
Speaker:handle
Speaker:are very
Speaker:this
Speaker:important issues
Speaker:the
Speaker:moving forward in the way we handle this so that we look out for especially those
Speaker:wonderful people who work through such
Speaker:what
Speaker:a tough time in their
Speaker:yeh
Speaker:lives but still want to compete in sports and
Speaker:to
Speaker:i hope i've given some kind of answer
Speaker:i
Speaker:that
Speaker:think are
Speaker:is
Speaker:really
Speaker:i do think we are in a really
Speaker:we
Speaker:interesting and imp tant time and we have to be human and not political and understand
Speaker:that there are people who are adjusting and getting used to this
Speaker:oh
Speaker:and it affects everyone's life most of all again these transgendora athletes who have gone
Speaker:well
Speaker:through
Speaker:i think
Speaker:so
Speaker:your
Speaker:much
Speaker:opinion
Speaker:and should
Speaker:from
Speaker:be
Speaker:the
Speaker:welcome
Speaker:human side
Speaker:in sports
Speaker:is what matters most and you're exactly right there need to be more studies there needs
Speaker:to be more education we still have a lot to learn about it and these studies
Speaker:are just under weigh we may not have answers for five or two years christine brendon
Speaker:i could talk to you all day long and you have been gracious with your time
Speaker:for that i thank you and really i just want to say thank you not just
Speaker:for being a friend and a mentor to me but you're an advocate and you do
Speaker:it with facts you do it with heart and look people may not like you but
Speaker:they better respect you because you bring it every single time and i'm just i'm grateful
Speaker:to know you and i thank you for everything that you've done for me and for
Speaker:all women and for all people humans
Speaker:well thank you le sais a pleasure thank you for having this podcast having me on
Speaker:and all
Speaker:well
Speaker:you've done and how
Speaker:a
Speaker:you've spoken out as well and of course i know you're a much better
Speaker:no
Speaker:golfer
Speaker:way
Speaker:than i am there's that too
Speaker:oh
Speaker:that's very important but oh no definitely you are yes you are very good i am
Speaker:not very good but i love the game but then you and
Speaker:i your
Speaker:let's let's
Speaker:watching
Speaker:talk again and i certainly
Speaker:was
Speaker:here and anyone is watching who wants to deal with any of these talk more about
Speaker:any of this or especially young women or young men who are interested in journalism ivewebsite
Speaker:is just my name dot com and i have a student tap there and there's some
Speaker:imbedded videos that can give you some information and help and ideas for potentially for your
Speaker:career
Speaker:oh
Speaker:as well as anything else you might want to talk about
Speaker:i
Speaker:it can be there's a contact easy form as well for me on
Speaker:yes
Speaker:the on that website which is just christine brandon dot com
